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***ToastyX*** · 05-13-2023, 12:28 AM

(05-09-2023 10:27 PM)Khanh Wrote: I'm trying to adjust the blanking value for my 165hz monitor with the goal that my memory clock will finally clock down when just being on the desktop and so on.

I did find a value for 144hz which lets my gpu downclock the memory but I had no luck with 165hz yet.

For 144hz I adjusted the blanking time till the horizontal frequency matched the on in the manual of the monitor. (Pixel Clock was about 20mhz higher than in the manual).

For 165hz this did not work and I tried to increment the blanking time by 10 every try. Should I try to increase it with an increment of 1?

When you say it did not work, what is happening? Standard vertical blanking for 2560x1440 @ 165 Hz would be 119, but that would put the pixel clock too high for EDID detailed resolutions, so you would need to delete the existing 165 Hz and add a new one in a DisplayID extension block. If you don't delete the existing one, it will take precedence and ignore the one you added.

messistamessista · (Last edited: 05-13-2023, 01:25 AM by messistamessista)

(05-13-2023 12:17 AM)ToastyX Wrote:
(05-12-2023 06:29 PM)messistamessista Wrote: I've a Samsung Odyssey g4 25'' 240hz.

i want to play csgo @1350x1050 240hz, but if set CRU with that custom res ABOVE 190hz the screen shows a vertical "line" in the middle of it, like a few pixels wide mirror or something (it repeat the nearest pixels so it shows double an area of my screen) .
For example, ingame i see my crosshair almost double (and all that vertical area)
Use GPU scaling, or try resolutions divisible by 8.

amd adrenaline shows that i have GPU scaling "ON" , i've also tried res "1352" (its divisible by 8) and it still happens, (more than 190hz = there is a vertical division/ pixel mirror at the middle of screen)

does it help if i upload a taken photo from my cellphone ?

@ToastyX

https://i.gyazo.com/5c37bbe3bf98b02f0dfb...5917e8.png

this is what i mean. can you look at it?

XAGMNINETY · (Last edited: 05-13-2023, 11:00 PM by XAGMNINETY)

Hi Toasty,

Been around here before, and you were very helpful. I ended up donating to this project at that time, as it's instrumental for the PCs that I have.

I've recently gotten HDMI 2.1 working on my LG OLED - previously, I only used it in HDMI 2.0 (with a 3080 Ti) as it was ran through an HDMI 2.0 Yamaha receiver. As a note, I used your application to remove all traces of the evil 4096x2160 - including one in the "HDMI Support" block that kept reappearing no matter what.

I wanted to make a quick note about this before my main question - in the "HDMI Support" block under the CTA-861 Extension block, the fourth entry by default on an HDMI 2.1 screen is a 4096x2160p @ 24 Hz. No matter how many times I removed it, this resolution would always re-appear after what seems to be an internal driver reset - perhaps the driver needs to see exactly 4 resolutions in this space at all times. What I did was "spoof" the 4th entry into a duplicate 3840x2160 30 Hz block, and that stuck. I was then able to load my proper DLDSR resolutions through the NV Control Panel. Not sure if that's a bug, but I figured I'd report it.

Anyway, I'm here to ask about refresh rate timings and how it relates to VSync stutter. Recently, I've been seeing games that are capped by the screen's refresh rate via VSYNC have a small but noticeable amount of motion and camera stutter - notably Left 4 Dead and Halo, two games notable for having very reliable frame time graphs. At first, I thought it was a driver issue, but I think it may come down to the timings I'm using for my custom resolutions. I've been using this tool (in a Chromium browser, Firefox is borked): https://www.vsynctester.com, and the frame time spikes it spit out, particularly on my laptop, have given me pause. I'd say every ~30 seconds or so in the best case scenario (OLED 120 Hz) and about every ~10 seconds or so in the worst case (Laptop 120 Hz), I get a big ol' frame time spike, large enough to span the entire graph of this test. These are results from either using the "Automatic" or "Native" options for PC, on 3 different machines.

Generally, I've used the "Automatic PC" or "Native PC" options, to try and find the right timings for the exact refresh. Early on, I tried to use the "Manual" timings to lock in the refresh exactly, but that seems to cause very frequent VSYNC stutter no matter what, so I quickly binned that idea and went with the Automatic or Native PC options. From what I can tell, "Native" is specifically tailored for 60 Hz intervals - that's why all 60 Hz options have identical values for both Native PC and Automatic PC. However, this is not the case for multiples of 60 Hz, as there is some variation. Is it wiser to use the "Native" option only for intervals of 60, or just 60 itself? I'm not really sure.

I've read the readme for the installation on the first page many times, as well as the "Timing Parameters Explained' page that details how the timings work, and I still am not really sure what the modus operandi is to find the most VSYNC stutter-free timings. I am well aware that each screen is (very) different and there's no silver bullet for any refresh rate, but I'd like to get as close as possible. It's not a huge deal on my OLED, as I have the BlurBusters GSYNC optimal settings enabled most of the time. But, as I mentioned, I do have a 240 Hz laptop that doesn't have a GSYNC screen that exhibits issues, and GSYNC is not a magic bullet for many games, particularly older ones, that weren't designed to run at arbitrary refresh rates. So this is something that will come up fairly often.

I am looking for high-level pointers, and nothing else, so that I can do these myself - I have 3 panels (1 OLED and 2 IPS) that all have different characteristics and there's no way I want to burden you or anyone else with any part of figuring this issue out. I'm also not looking for 100% perfection, either - especially considering a number of these refresh rates (90 and 75 Hz for example) are not direct divisors for the IPS Monitors I use them on (165 Hz and 240 Hz respectively). I'm essentially looking to minimize the stutter as much as I can.

Thanks for any advice you may have, and thanks again for developing this integral application. No rush on a reply, as it's by no means an emergency.

X

Travis5151 · (Last edited: 05-14-2023, 05:49 PM by Travis5151)

Okay. I have a weird one. With my samsung tv going through my receiver (so 4090 to receiver to tv) i can get 4k 120 on fresh driver install. However at some point after a few reboots it forces 4k 60. When that happens in the display adapter properties it shows my dsiplay native at 8k and I have no option for 4k 120; just 60. I cannot get this to show unless I set scaling in the ncvcp to display; not gpu. Once at scaling on display it is 4k 120. A clean ddu uninstall and reinstall f the driver allows 4k 120 but it bugs out after some amount of reboots.

Any idea how to fix this? If I open cru and try to create a 4k 120 it gives me red and won't allow anything but 4k 60. I am under the impression that gpu scaling is better so I would like to figure out how to make that option work.

Thank you for the help!

Travis5151 · 05-15-2023, 02:07 AM

Just a note but it's a samsung 800b issue. Removing thr reciever and going to the tv direct still only allows 60 fps with gpu scaling. Is this expected behavior ? Any way to use cru to get 120 4k with gpu scaling?

skola28 · 05-15-2023, 02:42 PM

[/quote]
CRU is not for fixing problems like this. The TV already defines 3840x2160 @ 120 Hz, so there's no point in using CRU to add a resolution that already exists. The problem is you need HDMI 2.1 to get 3840x2160 @ 120 Hz. Both your computer and the dock only support HDMI 2.0.
[/quote]

Thanks Toasty. I think I probably confused it with several other posts claiming 3840x2160@120 using 4:2:2. 8b over HDMI 2.0.
[/quote]

I am in the process of attempting to connect DP1.4 from my dock to the C2 (DP to HDMI), once the cable arrives (HURRY UP AMAZON!).

I am also going to attempt USB-C to HDMI from either the USB-C on the laptop or the one on the WD19 dock.

The trick will be whether or not my Intel Iris Xe really outputs full DP1.4 on the USB-C ports.

This is one of the posts that originally got me thinking I could get 4K120 over HDMI 2.0. I think I was convinced that with CRU, I could make ONLY 420 8-bit color and 4k120 show up and sidestep my Intel Graphics Command Center which refuses to let me set custom resolutions.

***ToastyX*** · 05-17-2023, 02:11 AM

(05-13-2023 01:03 AM)messistamessista Wrote: https://i.gyazo.com/5c37bbe3bf98b02f0dfb...5917e8.png

this is what i mean. can you look at it?

That's something your monitor is doing. GPU scaling should work around the problem by scaling to the native resolution. For GPU scaling to work, you need to make sure the same refresh rate exists at the native resolution.

***ToastyX*** · 05-17-2023, 02:12 AM

(05-13-2023 01:52 AM)XAGMNINETY Wrote: Hi Toasty,

Been around here before, and you were very helpful. I ended up donating to this project at that time, as it's instrumental for the PCs that I have.

I've recently gotten HDMI 2.1 working on my LG OLED - previously, I only used it in HDMI 2.0 (with a 3080 Ti) as it was ran through an HDMI 2.0 Yamaha receiver. As a note, I used your application to remove all traces of the evil 4096x2160 - including one in the "HDMI Support" block that kept reappearing no matter what.

I wanted to make a quick note about this before my main question - in the "HDMI Support" block under the CTA-861 Extension block, the fourth entry by default on an HDMI 2.1 screen is a 4096x2160p @ 24 Hz. No matter how many times I removed it, this resolution would always re-appear after what seems to be an internal driver reset - perhaps the driver needs to see exactly 4 resolutions in this space at all times. What I did was "spoof" the 4th entry into a duplicate 3840x2160 30 Hz block, and that stuck. I was then able to load my proper DLDSR resolutions through the NV Control Panel. Not sure if that's a bug, but I figured I'd report it.

Anyway, I'm here to ask about refresh rate timings and how it relates to VSync stutter. Recently, I've been seeing games that are capped by the screen's refresh rate via VSYNC have a small but noticeable amount of motion and camera stutter - notably Left 4 Dead and Halo, two games notable for having very reliable frame time graphs. At first, I thought it was a driver issue, but I think it may come down to the timings I'm using for my custom resolutions. I've been using this tool (in a Chromium browser, Firefox is borked): https://www.vsynctester.com, and the frame time spikes it spit out, particularly on my laptop, have given me pause. I'd say every ~30 seconds or so in the best case scenario (OLED 120 Hz) and about every ~10 seconds or so in the worst case (Laptop 120 Hz), I get a big ol' frame time spike, large enough to span the entire graph of this test. These are results from either using the "Automatic" or "Native" options for PC, on 3 different machines.

Generally, I've used the "Automatic PC" or "Native PC" options, to try and find the right timings for the exact refresh. Early on, I tried to use the "Manual" timings to lock in the refresh exactly, but that seems to cause very frequent VSYNC stutter no matter what, so I quickly binned that idea and went with the Automatic or Native PC options. From what I can tell, "Native" is specifically tailored for 60 Hz intervals - that's why all 60 Hz options have identical values for both Native PC and Automatic PC. However, this is not the case for multiples of 60 Hz, as there is some variation. Is it wiser to use the "Native" option only for intervals of 60, or just 60 itself? I'm not really sure.

I've read the readme for the installation on the first page many times, as well as the "Timing Parameters Explained' page that details how the timings work, and I still am not really sure what the modus operandi is to find the most VSYNC stutter-free timings. I am well aware that each screen is (very) different and there's no silver bullet for any refresh rate, but I'd like to get as close as possible. It's not a huge deal on my OLED, as I have the BlurBusters GSYNC optimal settings enabled most of the time. But, as I mentioned, I do have a 240 Hz laptop that doesn't have a GSYNC screen that exhibits issues, and GSYNC is not a magic bullet for many games, particularly older ones, that weren't designed to run at arbitrary refresh rates. So this is something that will come up fairly often.

I am looking for high-level pointers, and nothing else, so that I can do these myself - I have 3 panels (1 OLED and 2 IPS) that all have different characteristics and there's no way I want to burden you or anyone else with any part of figuring this issue out. I'm also not looking for 100% perfection, either - especially considering a number of these refresh rates (90 and 75 Hz for example) are not direct divisors for the IPS Monitors I use them on (165 Hz and 240 Hz respectively). I'm essentially looking to minimize the stutter as much as I can.

Thanks for any advice you may have, and thanks again for developing this integral application. No rush on a reply, as it's by no means an emergency.

X

Timing parameters have nothing to do with stutter. Stutter happens entirely on the PC's end and has nothing to do with the monitor. Vsync is just a way to synchronize with the refresh rate, so the only way vsync can stutter is if some frames are missing the next refresh because they are taking too long to process.

One cause of vsync stutter is frame rate caps. Vsync already acts as a frame rate cap, so adding another frame rate cap can cause stuttering because it won't be synchronized with the refresh rate. I remember Doom 3 having this problem because it forced 60 FPS which caused nasty stuttering at 60 Hz with vsync on.

For games without frame rate caps, you'd probably get the smoothest result using a refresh rate that's below your average frame rate so the frame times are more consistent.

If something in the background is using up the CPU or causing disk access, that can cause frame time spikes.

***ToastyX*** · 05-17-2023, 02:12 AM

(05-15-2023 02:07 AM)Travis5151 Wrote: Just a note but it's a samsung 800b issue. Removing thr reciever and going to the tv direct still only allows 60 fps with gpu scaling. Is this expected behavior ? Any way to use cru to get 120 4k with gpu scaling?

GPU scaling scales to the native resolution, so if the TV's native resolution is 8K, the only way GPU scaling can work at 4K @ 120 Hz is if 8K @ 120 Hz is also available. The TV is designed to handle 4K @ 120 Hz, so you're better off just using display scaling.

***ToastyX*** · 05-17-2023, 02:13 AM

(05-15-2023 02:42 PM)skola28 Wrote: I am in the process of attempting to connect DP1.4 from my dock to the C2 (DP to HDMI), once the cable arrives (HURRY UP AMAZON!).

I am also going to attempt USB-C to HDMI from either the USB-C on the laptop or the one on the WD19 dock.

The trick will be whether or not my Intel Iris Xe really outputs full DP1.4 on the USB-C ports.

This is one of the posts that originally got me thinking I could get 4K120 over HDMI 2.0. I think I was convinced that with CRU, I could make ONLY 420 8-bit color and 4k120 show up and sidestep my Intel Graphics Command Center which refuses to let me set custom resolutions.

Yes, 4K @ 120 Hz is possible with YCbCr 4:2:0 but only if the GPU supports it. Also DisplayPort 1.4 has less bandwidth than HDMI 2.1, so using an adapter will only work if the GPU, dock, and adapter all support display stream compression (DSC).