Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)

[ToastyX]

(05-12-2016 12:46 AM)laika Wrote:  Toasty, before anything, amazing program. But I've been having a tough time transmitting audio through my HDMI to my hdtv (serving as monitor).

CRU does what is expected, it allows my crappy hdtv resolution to work with (real) 1920x1080.

But when I try using the hdmi.audio custom extension block, my resolution goes back to the crappy one.
The only way to fix this is to set it as 'No Extension Block', but this way I can't have working hdmi audio, because it's detected as a DVI.

The resolution is working. The problem is the TV is treating 1920x1080 differently with HDMI vs. DVI signals, and the only way to get audio is with HDMI support. The only idea I have is to try the "LCD reduced" timing option (and remove 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz from standard resolutions). That will cause some TVs to treat it as a PC resolution. If that doesn't help, there's not much you can do other than to route the sound from the TV through some other method.

[laika]

(05-12-2016 02:35 AM)ToastyX Wrote:  

(05-12-2016 12:46 AM)laika Wrote:  Toasty, before anything, amazing program. But I've been having a tough time transmitting audio through my HDMI to my hdtv (serving as monitor).

CRU does what is expected, it allows my crappy hdtv resolution to work with (real) 1920x1080.

But when I try using the hdmi.audio custom extension block, my resolution goes back to the crappy one.
The only way to fix this is to set it as 'No Extension Block', but this way I can't have working hdmi audio, because it's detected as a DVI.

The resolution is working. The problem is the TV is treating 1920x1080 differently with HDMI vs. DVI signals, and the only way to get audio is with HDMI support. The only idea I have is to try the "LCD reduced" timing option (and remove 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz from standard resolutions). That will cause some TVs to treat it as a PC resolution. If that doesn't help, there's not much you can do other than to route the sound from the TV through some other method.

Didn't work, the resolution resets every time I add a 'hdmi support' data block.
Is this a bug, or what?

[ToastyX]

(05-12-2016 08:22 PM)laika Wrote:  Didn't work, the resolution resets every time I add a 'hdmi support' data block.
Is this a bug, or what?

HDMI ports can operate as HDMI or single-link DVI. HDMI is treated as single-link DVI if an HDMI support data block is not defined in the extension block. Your TV is handling 1920x1080 differently with HDMI vs. DVI signals, and there's no way to get audio with single-link DVI.

[ashlar]

Hi! First of all thanks to ToastyX for continued support of this utility.

I finally decided to use it when trying to fix the clock deviations (audio/video) for my HTPC. Being fed up with Nvidia messy custom resolutions handling, I was advised about CRU. And here I am

My system is Win 8.1 x64, I use a Nvidia GTX 660 (361.75 drivers, it being an HTPC I try to avoid updating needlessly) connected to a Pioneer Kuro plasma LX-6090 through HDMI (through which audio from GTX 660 is routed too).

Without CRU, the custom resolutions I generated appeared in the Nvidia Control Panel (NCP from here on) on top of all others, under the Custom entry, with other resolutions I used (1080p 50Hz already had perfect timing by default, for instance) appearing under the "Ultra HD, HD, SD" entry, just below.

In CRU I found my plasma as the single device connected, I proceeded to download all Detailed resolutions and Standard resolutions I found there.

I then created a 1920x1080@60Hz detailed resolution (main screen) and then went to Custom extension block.

In Custom extension block I added the other resolutions I needed under detailed resolutions (Extension Block screen) and I added HDMI support and Audio formats under the Data blocks entry (Extension Block screen). I did this by importing the files downloadable from the opening post, modifying only the DSD entry under bitstreaming formats supported (as my AVR doesn't support DSD bitstreaming if I'm not mistaken, anyway it's not relevant to my problem ).

OK, OK, OK, Restart64.exe. Custom resolutions looking good (some trial and error for some refresh rates but I ended up with what I wanted), audio working. Great! Resolutions created with CRU appeared in NCP under the PC entry. No more "Ultra HD, HD, SD" entry there.

Unfortunately I soon discovered that colors seemed off. So I went to check Output colour format and Output dynamic range in NCP. And they were as they always have been set up: RGB, Full output dynamic range. But colors were off. I tested them with a gray ramp and I had blacks crushed.
My plasma is set up with automatic colour format detection but moving from auto to the manual settings I discovered that there was a mismatch between what dynamic range the HDMI was "telling" the TV it was sending and the actual color information it was sending.

To cut things short, whereas before I had my whole "reproduction chain" setup for RGB full (and I calibrated my TV as such, being ISF trained and everything) I now have a situation where I have to set RGB Limited, while keeping my TV to auto (which gets the Limited range correctly at that point) but in madVR (a video renderer for video playback) I still need to have the setting "The display expects the following RGB output levels" to PC levels (0-255). If I set it up to TV Levels (16-235), colors become washed out.

Reproduction chain before CRU: NCP set at RGB Full, madVR set at PC Levels (0-255), tv set to Auto
Reproduction chain after CRU: NCP set at RGB limited, madVR set at PC Levels (0-255), tv set to Auto

In both cases desktop colors look right, black and white ramps show correctly only the 16-235 range (which is what the TV had been calibrated to).

Now... why the difference? Not being sure of what happens behind scenes I'm wary of unneeded or wrong color conversions happening.

[ToastyX]

(05-20-2016 11:44 AM)ashlar Wrote:  Unfortunately I soon discovered that colors seemed off. So I went to check Output colour format and Output dynamic range in NCP. And they were as they always have been set up: RGB, Full output dynamic range. But colors were off. I tested them with a gray ramp and I had blacks crushed.
My plasma is set up with automatic colour format detection but moving from auto to the manual settings I discovered that there was a mismatch between what dynamic range the HDMI was "telling" the TV it was sending and the actual color information it was sending.

To cut things short, whereas before I had my whole "reproduction chain" setup for RGB full (and I calibrated my TV as such, being ISF trained and everything) I now have a situation where I have to set RGB Limited, while keeping my TV to auto (which gets the Limited range correctly at that point) but in madVR (a video renderer for video playback) I still need to have the setting "The display expects the following RGB output levels" to PC levels (0-255). If I set it up to TV Levels (16-235), colors become washed out.

Reproduction chain before CRU: NCP set at RGB Full, madVR set at PC Levels (0-255), tv set to Auto
Reproduction chain after CRU: NCP set at RGB limited, madVR set at PC Levels (0-255), tv set to Auto

In both cases desktop colors look right, black and white ramps show correctly only the 16-235 range (which is what the TV had been calibrated to).

Now... why the difference? Not being sure of what happens behind scenes I'm wary of unneeded or wrong color conversions happening.

I can only think of three factors that would cause a color difference:

1. HDMI vs. DVI signals: Since you included HDMI support in the extension block, this shouldn't be a factor.

2. RGB vs. YCbCr: You said you set the color format to full-range RGB, so this shouldn't be a factor. YCbCr is always limited-range.

3. Timing differences: If you're not using the official CEA standard timing parameters, the TV may treat it as a PC resolution and assume full-range RGB, but you're saying it's receiving limited-range RGB. If the video card is sending limited-range RGB when you set full-range RGB, then that's a driver bug. Try using this: http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=83

Other than that, there shouldn't be any color differences.

[ashlar]

Thanks for your reply.

1) You are correct, I do have the extension block with HDMI support. I wonder if any of the options there are relevant. I know I managed to get 12 bit output correctly (Plasma reports 36 bits input).

2) Yes.

3) I tried the program you linked. Didn't seem to do much. Nvidia now offers that setting through its control panel and it seems to be working.

The problem is that the opposite of what you mention seems to be happening. The TV "thinks" it's receiving limited range no matter what I do. If I force RGB full range (instead of leaving signal detection to "Auto" in the TV settings), everything goes back being correct. Before using CRU, I had everything set to full range in the PC (Nvidia Control Panel and madVR) and the TV correctly interpreted the signal as 0-255 automatically.

Unfortunately I cannot force it to 0-255 because it actually goes to my AVR, which receives many other signals (PS3, Sky receiver, WiiU, etc.) and the routes them all through a single HDMI cable to the TV. If I don't set it to Auto, all other signals are wrongly interpreted as RGB 0-255 (Sky outputs in YCbCr, for instance).
Anything springs to mind? There must be something that Nvidia did differently to the EDID with respect to what CRU is generating.

[ToastyX]

(05-22-2016 02:57 PM)ashlar Wrote:  The problem is that the opposite of what you mention seems to be happening. The TV "thinks" it's receiving limited range no matter what I do. If I force RGB full range (instead of leaving signal detection to "Auto" in the TV settings), everything goes back being correct. Before using CRU, I had everything set to full range in the PC (Nvidia Control Panel and madVR) and the TV correctly interpreted the signal as 0-255 automatically.

I see what you mean. You're saying the video card is sending full-range RGB but not marking it as full-range, so the TV assumes it's receiving limited-range RGB. Try adding a video capability data block, and set "Selectable RGB range" at the bottom.

[ashlar]

(05-23-2016 04:16 AM)ToastyX Wrote:  I see what you mean. You're saying the video card is sending full-range RGB but not marking it as full-range, so the TV assumes it's receiving limited-range RGB. Try adding a video capability data block, and set "Selectable RGB range" at the bottom.

One further discovery and this extends to custom resolutions created through Nvidia Control Panel too.

In CRU I created one detailed resolution for the basic 1080p@60. I then created detailed resolutions in the extension block for 59.94, 50 and 23.976.

Yesterday I discovered that high resolution formats were not bitstreaming and after A LOT of trials and errors I found out that they were working only for the primary detailed resolution 1080p@60.
I exported my config, reset everything to nvidia defaults and tried with the standard refresh rates offered by Nvidia. At all refresh rates everything was working. I created a custom refresh rate for 23.976 and, once more, TrueHD and DTS-MA were not working.

I wonder what's the difference between the standard resolution/refresh offered by Nvidia and the custom ones we are creating (even more so considering that, for instance, Nvidia's 23.976 turns out to be 23.971).

I'll try the "video capability" you are suggesting for RGB range problems, thank you.
Edit: What about the three entries "TV resolutions", "PC resolutions" and "Native resolution" in the Video Capability screen? Do I leave them at default (not supported/not supported/use tv-pc information)?

[ashlar]

Ok, the Video Capability thing fixes that problem.

On the other hand, I can confirm that as soon as a custom resolution is created, on an Nvidia GTX 660, that resolution loses audio capabilities (formats and samplerates). From being capable of bitstreaming DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, DD+, everything, up to 192KHz, the audio portion goes to being limited to DD and DTS, up to 48KHz, or you lose 192KHz capability and keep the formats... but it downgrades basically.

I use Win 8.1 x64. If I keep open the Control Panel/Sound/Properties (onboard audio of the GPU)/Supported Formats windows and switch to a custom resolution, that windows goes blank, with just a single written message stating that the device in use has been changed. This doesn't happen if one sticks to the basic resolution/refresh rates offered by Nvidia through the control panel (but those have horrible timings... 23.971 anyone?).

Drivers are 365.19. And yes, I've loaded all the correct extended blocks HDMI and bitstreaming settings (and, again, it does it even if you create a custom res through Nvidia Control Panel).

[ToastyX]

(05-23-2016 03:49 PM)ashlar Wrote:  Ok, the Video Capability thing fixes that problem.

That's interesting. I didn't realize NVIDIA supported that feature.

(05-23-2016 03:49 PM)ashlar Wrote:  Edit: What about the three entries "TV resolutions", "PC resolutions" and "Native resolution" in the Video Capability screen? Do I leave them at default (not supported/not supported/use tv-pc information)?

I don't think that matters. Just put what your TV does. Always underscanned means no overscan.

(05-23-2016 08:45 AM)ashlar Wrote:  Yesterday I discovered that high resolution formats were not bitstreaming and after A LOT of trials and errors I found out that they were working only for the primary detailed resolution 1080p@60.
I exported my config, reset everything to nvidia defaults and tried with the standard refresh rates offered by Nvidia. At all refresh rates everything was working. I created a custom refresh rate for 23.976 and, once more, TrueHD and DTS-MA were not working.

I wonder what's the difference between the standard resolution/refresh offered by Nvidia and the custom ones we are creating (even more so considering that, for instance, Nvidia's 23.976 turns out to be 23.971).

What timing parameters did you use? Audio is transmitted during the blanking periods, and reducing the refresh rate reduces the amount of data that can be transmitted, so the blanking would need to be increased to account for this. The CEA standard timing parameters have the horizontal front porch set to 638 at 24 Hz and 528 at 25/50 Hz. Start with the "LCD standard" timing parameters, and switch to manual to make adjustments.