DVI output & 60Hz refreshrate - oldschool drivers

[trodas]

Unless I'm mistaken, older early Forceware drivers (aka Detonators back there) has a refreshrate problem. On DVI was possible only 60Hz. At least my old beta ones, 45.28, can't seems to show more that 60Hz on LCD monitor pluged into the old 5600XT cardie using DVI connection - while the same drivers did not have a problem with 100Hz refresh on CRT.

So, couple of questions. First - I'm right these old drivers are 60Hz on DVI limited?

Second - in witch first version of Forceware drivers this 60Hz DVI limit was fixed?

Third - how the fix looks like? Eg. it is possible to somewhat inject it into more early Deton... Forceware drivers?

After some Windows install tweakings, I decided to "give it a try" and check out 53.03 WHQ drivers for the weird "60Hz only" problem. Much to my dismay, the "60Hz only" problem seems to persist.

Dunno why. Even in lower resolution the driver "force" 60Hz. Is there ANY way to lift this limit? When I used ReForce and force the refresh higher, then upon reboot I got BSOD "inacessible device"

Not that there is anything wrong with BSOD, yet I would rather see another result

Forceware (I still like the old Detonators better...) 81.95 WHQ - still 60Hz only...

I beginning to feel that the problem is "somewhere else". I checked the bios setting and yes, there it is - the DDC scanning was skiped on the boot, so it might do somehing bad. Changed it, but no difference... Maybe reinstall again?

Is there any way to check if the GFX card bios properly reporting the capability of more Hz or not? The problem was not when I used the same card with VGA output and CRT monitor, yet using DVI and LCD monitor I running into a 60Hz wall ...

Looks like Linux users find a way:
http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Li...dix-d.html

Quote:"AllowNon60HzDFPModes": some lower quality TMDS encoders are only rated to drive DFPs at 60Hz; the driver will determine when only 60Hz DFP modes are allowed. This argument disables this stage of the mode validation pipeline.

Now let's hope I can find a way to fix this problem in Windows too...

I reasonably believe that since the 5600XT can do 2048x1538 pixels in 80Hz refresh, then it sure can do 1280x1024 in 75Hz. eVGA says 5600XT it can do 150Hz in 1280x1024:
http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/N317.pdf

As the Linux solution suggest, the drivers cap the refreshrate to 60Hz, because they detect "some lower quality TMDS encoders are only rated to drive DFPs at 60Hz"... But since the very same TMDS encoder can give me output resolution of 2048x1538 pixels in 60Hz refresh, then sure as hell it can give me 1280x1024 in 75Hz. As on Linux

Now the question is only how to duplicate the Linux nVidia drivers option "AllowNon60HzDFPModes". Anyone can shred some light at this?

I, personally, see only two ways.

1) change/patch/modify the drivers somehow to allow the non 60Hz DFP modes even on 5600XT card

2) change/patch/modify the GFX card bios to not report lower quality TMDS encoder, thus allowing drivers to set up higher refreshrates

I use these modified beta drivers on my old FX 5600XT card:
https://www.oboom.com/JUP67NBV
http://www.mediafire.com/?8ha7d1l022pry2b
http://rapidgator.net/file/62f91baee9ec9...8.zip.html
http://ulozto.cz/xJfVgkw/detonators-45-28-zip

Any help...?

[ToastyX]

(12-15-2014 03:07 PM)trodas Wrote:  Unless I'm mistaken, older early Forceware drivers (aka Detonators back there) has a refreshrate problem. On DVI was possible only 60Hz. At least my old beta ones, 45.28, can't seems to show more that 60Hz on LCD monitor pluged into the old 5600XT cardie using DVI connection - while the same drivers did not have a problem with 100Hz refresh on CRT.

If I remember correctly from 10 years ago, FX 5000 series GPUs had low-quality internal TMDS transmitters that couldn't handle higher pixel clocks properly. Only cards with higher-quality external TMDS transmitters could handle higher pixel clocks. That's why the limit was added to the driver. It's a hardware issue, not a driver problem.

TMDS is for DVI only. DVI-VGA adapters are still VGA. VGA did not have this problem.

(12-15-2014 03:07 PM)trodas Wrote:  I reasonably believe that since the 5600XT can do 2048x1538 pixels in 80Hz refresh, then it sure can do 1280x1024 in 75Hz. eVGA says 5600XT it can do 150Hz in 1280x1024:
http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/N317.pdf

Just because it can handle 2048x1538 with VGA doesn't mean it can handle that with DVI. If I remember correctly, even 1600x1200 @ 60 Hz had problems.

[trodas]

Oh, that is a bad news. Not the pixel clock limits of the chip is what matters, the internal TMDS transmitter suxx...

That means, that while my oldie Radeon 9100 card could do 1280x1024 at 75Hz just fine over DVI (19" iiyama ProLite E1980SD), then my FX 5600XT is limited to 60Hz over DVI in such resolution?

Or can there - by some stroke of luck - be a miracle and can the 5600XT reach 1280x1024 at 75Hz? What do you think?

1600x1200 is probably out of the possibility. Lame. FX 6800 cards have better TMDS?



PS. are there some limits on how old drivers could be used with CRU? I mean... these 45.28 Forceware ones are kinda old

[ToastyX]

(05-06-2015 02:52 PM)trodas Wrote:  Oh, that is a bad news. Not the pixel clock limits of the chip is what matters, the internal TMDS transmitter suxx...

That means, that while my oldie Radeon 9100 card could do 1280x1024 at 75Hz just fine over DVI (19" iiyama ProLite E1980SD), then my FX 5600XT is limited to 60Hz over DVI in such resolution?

Or can there - by some stroke of luck - be a miracle and can the 5600XT reach 1280x1024 at 75Hz? What do you think?

Wait, your post about TMDS encoders threw me off. Are you sure this is not an EDID limitation? Does your monitor report 75 Hz in the EDID? Most LCD monitors only report 60 Hz at the native resolution, so other refresh rates won't be available unless you add a custom resolution. Have you tried adding a custom resolution with the NVIDIA control panel? 1280x1024 @ 75 Hz should be possible with CVT reduced blanking even with lower quality TMDS transmitters. I don't know if the older drivers had advanced timing options.

(05-06-2015 02:52 PM)trodas Wrote:  1600x1200 is probably out of the possibility. Lame. FX 6800 cards have better TMDS?

Only the FX 5000 series had this problem. 1600x1200 @ 60 Hz might be possible with CVT reduced blanking, but most monitors reported different timing parameters in the EDID with a higher pixel clock. That's why AMD added the "reduce DVI frequency on high resolution displays" option to their driver.

(05-06-2015 02:52 PM)trodas Wrote:  PS. are there some limits on how old drivers could be used with CRU? I mean... these 45.28 Forceware ones are kinda old

CRU will work with any driver that supports EDID overrides in Vista or later. XP does not support EDID overrides.

[trodas]

Well, I write my own driver for the monitor, it is there:

Code:

[version]
signature="$CHICAGO$"
Class=Monitor
Provider=%IIYAMA%

[Manufacturer]
%IIYAMA%=IIYAMA

[IIYAMA]
%PL1980% = iiyama ProLite PL1980 Series

[iiyama ProLite PL1980 Series]
DelReg=DEL_CURRENT_REG
AddReg=PL1980.AddReg, 1280, DPMS, ICM9

[DEL_CURRENT_REG]
HKR,MODES
HKR,,MaxResolution
HKR,,DPMS
HKR,,ICMProfile

[PL1980.AddReg]
HKR,"MODES\1280,1024",Mode1,,"24.0-83.0,55.0-76.0,+,+"
HKR,,ICMProfile,1,3

[1280]
HKR,,MaxResolution,,"1280,1024"

[DPMS]
HKR,,DPMS,,1
    
[ICM9]
HKR,,ICMProfile,1,9

[Strings]
IIYAMA="IIYAMA CORPORATION"
PL1980="iiyama ProLite PL1980 Series"

So I hope that my monitor report properly the 75Hz possibility. Radeon 9100 does work with it at 75Hz w/o a glitch. I hoped FX 5600XT could work too, but it does not show any way to move up to 75Hz.
I could "override the refreshrates" to 75Hz, but it is just not happening.

Quote:Have you tried adding a custom resolution with the NVIDIA control panel? 1280x1024 @ 75 Hz should be possible with CVT reduced blanking even with lower quality TMDS transmitters. I don't know if the older drivers had advanced timing options.

Nope, but I will try it soon. As soon, as I get new CPU to play, so I will connect the old machine to my main monitor again
It probably would require notably more modern drivers, tough. My whole aim is to use these old drivers because of their speed. Since that did not seems to happen (no, 60Hz is not for me), then I try Radeon 9600XT - much faster that 9100 and surely it will allow 75Hz over DVI.

Thanks for the explaination that only FX 5xxx cards are useless for the DVI output, limiting it to 60Hz.

Quote:any driver that supports EDID overrides in Vista or later. XP does not support EDID overrides.

Well, it start nicely, allow me to define the resolution... but that it is Could I overwrite the EDID data myself somehow? Or could there be even the problem, when my monitor does support 75Hz?